THE AUDACIOUS ADVENTURE with Danica & Autumn

5 Reasons Why We MUST Be Discerning Christians // Discernment Series (Part 1)

• Danica Childs • Episode 3

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Discernment is a MUST in today's crazy, mixed up world!  Welcome to the first episode of our series on discernment.  We’re starting things off with exactly WHY we believers need Christian discernment in the first place.  Join us today as we discuss these 5 Reasons:

  1.  A mature Christian discerns between good and evil  (Hebrews 5:12-14)
  2.  The Christian life IS spiritual warfare (Ephesians 6:12)
  3.  The world and the Christian life are in opposition (James 4:4)
  4.  To discern wolves in sheep's clothing  (Matt 7:15)
  5.  To understand God's will so we don't become foolish  (Ephesians 5:15-17)

ABOUT US:
DANICA CHILDS is a Spiritual Director with a MA in Spiritual Formation/Soul Care from Talbot Seminary and a MA in Christian Apologetics from Biola University. Her sister AUTUMN is a storyteller passionate about the spiritual gifts and creating with the Holy Spirit. We’re sisters who've spent a combined forty years in various forms of ministry, including co-planting a church in Hollywood with other families, where we served in a variety of leadership roles for around a decade. Later we began THE AUDACIOUS ADVENTURE as a Los Angeles based ministry in 2016. We daily pursue creative, artistic, messy, and joyful lives of adventure in Southern California with our family and friends!

"We're excited to adventure audaciously with YOU!"


Autumn Cornwell:

Hello and welcome to The Audacious Adventure. I'm Autumn Cornwell.

Danica Childs:

And I'm Danica Childs.

Autumn Cornwell:

And we're two sisters adventuring with the Holy Spirit.

Danica Childs:

Thank you for joining us today.

Autumn Cornwell:

We are we going to talk about what, Danica?

Danica Childs:

Today we are going to be talking about the FIVE reasons why you need to be, we need to be, a discerning Christian. Why is it important? So, five reasons why it is important to be a discerning Christian.

Autumn Cornwell:

And this launches our series on discernment.

Danica Childs:

And right off the top I'm just gonna give one caveat to our discussion. And that is, while we are going to be sharing five reasons why Christian discernment is so important, we are actually not going to define discernment today. So you will have to tune in next time to get more details on what we mean by discernment. What is it? So today, it might feel like a mystery.

Autumn Cornwell:

A mystery. You can sleuth a bit.

Danica Childs:

Maybe you can piece it together based on what we're saying?

Autumn Cornwell:

We're going to keep you in the dark, but not totally in the dark, we're gonna give you shards of light right now. Or shafts of light, shards of light? Shards of glass! (laughs)

Danica Childs:

It sounds very meaty and vicious. One other thing about this is that we, while we are not going to be giving you a definition of discernment, take a moment before you start listening to us and ask yourself, what do you think Christian discernment is and why you think it's important. Have you thought about it? Maybe you haven't even thought about it. Well, now's your chance just to take a moment and sort of take your own thoughts and assess what is it that I know about Christian discernment. What do I think about it? Why do I think it's important? Do I think it's important?

Autumn Cornwell:

I know, because you hear the word discernment bandied about a lot like "we discerned that this pastor should be called, or we just discerned that this is the job for us, or we discerned that is the mate for us", you know, that kind of thing? And you're like, "Hmm, what does that entail?" What does that mean?

Danica Childs:

So, all of those things will be answered in future episodes. We'll be talking a lot about this, because it's a very important topic.

Autumn Cornwell:

Yes, it is, indeed, and we have five, FIVE, reasons why discernment is important. What's the first one, Danica?

Danica Childs:

So the FIRST ONE is - because a mature Christian is able to discern between good and evil, between true spirits and false spirits. And so I'm going to read a verse from Hebrews that talks about this.

So this is from Hebrews 5:

12-14, and it says,"In fact, though, by this time, you you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truth of God's word all over again, you need milk, not solid food. Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use, have trained themselves to distinguish or discern good from evil." The author of Hebrews is adamant that Christians are supposed to be in training to discern well, that to be a mature Christian is to be a discerning Christian so that we can judge rightly, good from bad, good from evil, true spirits from false spirits.

Autumn Cornwell:

True. And it's the idea to have the milk, the bottle of milk, the baby bottle, versus the steak on the plate. So where are we, as we sit and assess ourselves? Are we the milk Christian, that the author talks about? Are we the solid food Christian? And what's the difference? Like how do we know what we're like? How do we know which one we are?

Danica Childs:

That's a great question.

Autumn Cornwell:

And the first thing that comes into my head is, and then I wanna hear what you have to say, Danica, but it's the idea that if you're reading God's word a lot, is it just going through you? Or are you metabolizing it? Is it sticking? Is it resonating? And now you're applying it to your life? That's one indication.

Danica Childs:

Yes, because if you're eating meat, and you have a well balanced diet, and you're really focused on that diet, being healthy and nutritious, that's how you actually build up muscle. And it's how you build up the components of your body to be healthy. And so there's a sense in which, you know, the mature Christian is a healthy Christian. And I would also say like, if you're wondering, "Well, who am I in this?" Well think about what you do when you go to church and you hear a sermon, or you hear people talking about the Word of God? What do you do with it? What do you do with that teaching? What do you do with the things that you read? Like in your Bible study? Or if you're reading books, or anything where there's Christian teaching going on. What do you do with that material? Does it just go in one ear and out the other? Or do you sit with it? And do you wonder how to apply it to your life and then do you take action on that?

Autumn Cornwell:

That's interesting, because as you were talking, Danica, it reminded me of being in college and in my 20s and how I kind of would read the Word and it would kind of like,"Okay, that's nice", and I mean, I wasn't going against it, but it wasn't like it came 100% alive. Until I was in my 20s, later 20s, something happened spiritually where I got hungry for God's word -- like a literal hunger, I couldn't stop reading the Bible, and I just kind of delved in. And then that's when I think I truly started to metabolize the Word of God, even though I had heard it my whole life, you know, and to some extent, there was a little bit of metabolism going on there. But it was at that point, I think it just really started to rock and roll, so to speak.

Danica Childs:

And this is a quick note, this is a freebie for you all out there, you're going to come across this term again, what Autumn just described about that hunger starting to build up in her is an example of what we call consolation. Where it's the Holy Spirit urging you on to things of God and to get closer to God. So that's a good sign that the Holy Spirit's at work when you start developing that hunger, because it doesn't come from yourself. And I would say the other thing in this is mature Christian, is one who takes ownership of their growth in the Christian life. And so instead of always wanting other people to tell you what is true, or what is in the Bible, you are taking ownership. We are taking ownership, and we're reading the Bible for ourselves. We are struggling with the words that are uncomfortable for ourselves, we are committing to time with God for ourselves. We're not requiring, or we're not dependent on other people to get us to that point.

Autumn Cornwell:

You know, we, as you were talking it also reminded me of the Catholic Church back in the day, when they would go and it would be all in Latin, and they didn't understand it. So they are absorbing it to a certain extent, maybe spiritually, but they didn't actually, they didn't know what it was saying. So think about that. Think about, you could hear the words but not know what they said. And they didn't even have a chance to own the Bible back in the olden days. They didn't have their own Bible in their own language. They just heard it in Latin. So think about that. We have Bibles on our phones, and everywhere. And we could be reading it, listening to it, all the time 24/7. So I don't know, that just came to me.

Danica Childs:

What's interesting about that, then, is that example shows, those the people in the congregation have to be dependent upon the priest and the church leaders for their food. And they have nothing to judge, they have no way to discern if what they're being told is true or not, because they don't have the word for themselves as a standard of against which to compare what they're being told by their priest.

Autumn Cornwell:

That is actually very interesting. I never thought about it like that.

Danica Childs:

It's an interesting way to circumvent discernment in a group of people is by like, removing the very thing that would help them.

Autumn Cornwell:

They can't double check.There's no double checking.

Danica Childs:

Exactly. Right.

Autumn Cornwell:

So when the priest goes, "Yes and now, in, you know, Proverbs 7, it says, when you have your eight wives, and your 20 children, and you're going to picnic, and --" You know what I mean? "Oh, okay." (laughs)

Danica Childs:

"Make sure you bring bread for the ants." Wait, there's something off about this.

Autumn Cornwell:

Wait, there's something off, yes.

Danica Childs:

NUMBER TWO. The reason for Christian discernment is that the Christian life, as one of my professors said, the Christian life IS spiritual warfare.

Autumn Cornwell:

That's a heavy one.

Danica Childs:

All the time.

Autumn Cornwell:

All the time.

Danica Childs: So the verse we have for that is from Ephesians, 6:

12, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." So I really appreciate this. So this is not like your neighbor who really irritates -- you can't say "spiritual warfare!" I mean, there might be --

Autumn Cornwell:

Or "My pastor puts me to sleep -- spiritual warfare!"

Danica Childs:

There might be influences there, but it is bigger than the the flesh and blood person. There's a spiritual realm that we are contending with. That wants to bring us down. And so our discernment needs to be sharp, and in focus so that we can discern what are the spiritual forces behind the people, the actions, the systems that we're all involved in?

Autumn Cornwell:

Yes, this is so huge. And it so goes with the first one you just mentioned as well, because to discern, to understand to be the milk Christian versus the steak or meat Christian, the idea that you realize that there is such a thing as an angel, there really is such a thing as a demon. There is a principality. There's tons of Scripture that covers this, and we're going into that in our series, but it is a reality. So this is around us all the time.

Danica Childs:

For example, we have, I have an extreme example of this. A friend of mine, her daughter went to camp and she was kind of like the leader of a VBS group or something like that. And she was put into a tent with two other girls, two other teenage girls. And one of the teenage girls was a very new believer, and the first day that they're in this tent together, the newish believer girl turns to my friend's daughter and says, "I've had sex with a demon." Yes, that sounds crazy.

Autumn Cornwell:

Very interesting first words to hear from a friend in a tent or a new friend.

Danica Childs:

Now we're not going to go into what all of that means. But for this conversation, what we want to focus on is that the spiritual discernment of the leadership missed that a girl in this condition, they did not have the spiritual discernment to sense, to ask the Holy Spirit, should a brand new Christian be in charge of children at VBS, for one. Should she be in this environment in this way with this much authority or leadership, or whatever. There was no discernment around this girl.

Autumn Cornwell:

So no red flags when they interviewed her or not interviewed, but, but kind of met her and hung out with her. Before the trip, there was no sense of anything.

Danica Childs:

So then, when my friend's daughter brought this conversation to the leadership, there was still no action taken. There was still no sense of like, "That's disturbing. And now we really need to do an intervention, we really need to take care of this girl, and we need to get her spiritual help." There was none of that. So again, a total lack of discernment about what even the sentence coming out of this girl meant spiritually.

Autumn Cornwell:

Oh, yeah. And there's multitudes of situational issues going on with that, a bare minimum that what it sounded like when you were relaying the story, they didn't even try to think of what it would feel like for that girl to hear that and how that would make her feel a little scared to be in the same tent with someone who is saying that, and it's such close quarters and all the dynamics, not just this girl is overseeing children, she will also be sleeping in the tent with two other girls.

Danica Childs:

This is an example where the girl in and of herself is not the issue. It's the fact that if she's saying things like that, that is evidence of her being demonized. There is spiritual warfare going on around this girl that has not been taken care of.

Autumn Cornwell:

Yeah, yeah. And that is not the right person to be in charge of children once again. But you wouldn't believe how often these kinds of things happen. How people are a little bit more cavalier sometimes when it comes to children's church or Sunday school.

Danica Childs:

They're desperate for leaders, they're desperate for volunteers, and they sort of bypass any of the spiritual red flags that the discernment would bring up. Because they're desperate for help. Didn't you have a story, too, about that?

Autumn Cornwell:

Is that all you're going to say about that one? Okay. Yeah. And so what's interesting, though, we have a good side to this kind of situation, where in the church where our children go, a gal, who no longer is at that church, brought up the fact that she came from a household where there was occult stuff going on. And she talked to one of our kids about having a third eye -- which goes into a whole bunch of other stuff. And so my child was really concerned and confused and found that was really odd. She liked the girl, but found what she was saying very disturbing. And so then she told the teacher, another teacher, the youth group leader, and in this case, the youth group leader listened. And then I had a conversation with the youth group leader. And we both knew, we need to walk carefully and discern the best way to go about this, because we want this new Christian girl to feel the love of Jesus. And we're not judging her. But she's saying a lot of uncomfortable things that are kind of freaky,

Danica Childs:

And could confuse other children who also may not come from Christian backgrounds.

Autumn Cornwell:

And who may allow this occult stuff. So then in this situation, however, they did steps to safeguard both the child and the other children, by making sure there was always a leader nearby. So that if she did bring up these topics in the group, you know, because a lot of times it's asking, "How are you doing? What did you do this week?""Well I went to a fortune teller." So that the leaders could help the rest of the group navigate this information. And then gently be able to tell the girl in question that this isn't exactly healthy. But in private --

Danica Childs:

But in private. They did not do this in front of others. They didn't shame her or anything like that.

Autumn Cornwell:

They did a great job. They were discerning enough to understand that something being told them was the truth. And they also had the discernment of how to go forward, protecting and blessing and honoring the girl who was from that household who was encountering all these types of things. And then also safeguarding the rest of the children in the group.

Danica Childs:

Yes. Because these are ways in which the demonic, the spiritual warfare element of stuff can come in and create havoc. If you're not aware of what these things mean.

Autumn Cornwell:

And this is huge. People in charge of youth need to be able to discern warfare. Yes, like this is just these are two kinds of interesting extreme experiences. But you would be surprised how often this occurs, right?

Danica Childs:

And especially churches that are on the upward slope of growth, where they're starting to see a lot of growth in the church, they're starting to see people experience freedom, from the bondages of addiction, or enslavement to sin propensities, whatever it is, they start seeing that freedom happening, people are starting to operate in their spiritual giftings. When there's church growth exploding, you can expect spiritual warfare. And so for churches, especially having discerning leadership, who understands what is manifesting as warfare in a particular situation is so important, because otherwise they won't be addressing the real problem.

Autumn Cornwell:

Oh, that's so huge.

Danica Childs:

So if you don't understand spiritual warfare, and you cannot discern what spirits are at work in a particular problem, then you won't actually be addressing the real issue.

Autumn Cornwell:

So huge.

Danica Childs:

And we have lots of experience with that.

Autumn Cornwell:

Oh, yeah. So we've lots to say about that. Lots and lots.

Danica Childs:

All right, so NUMBER THREE. The third reason why Christian discernment is important is because the world and the Christian life are in opposition.

And I'm going to read a verse from James 4:

4, and this verse might make you really uncomfortable. And it could be that you have never even heard this verse before. Like, you know, you've been reading through the Bible and just haven't come across this. And this might be like, a bucket of cold water in your face, like "what? How could that be in the Bible!" Okay, so this is what James tells us. He says, "You adulterous people don't you know, that friendship with the world means enmity with God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."

Autumn Cornwell:

Yes. And I think this means that if your beliefs and your worldview don't rock the boat at all, and never causes anybody any waves, no pushback, everybody everywhere always agrees with you -- that might be an indication of something, right, Danica?

Danica Childs:

That would be a red flag. I mean, technically, that would be a red flag. So think about if somebody was talking to you about your views on anything under the sun, anything - social issues, political issues, cultural issues, religious issues, spiritual issues, anything like that, and they're talking to you and you sound just like your non-Christian neighbor, and you're in agreement with everything, then consider that a red flag. You may want to revisit some of the things you believe, and have you really sifted them with God to say, "Is this really of you, Lord, or have I just sort of syncretized this belief into a Christian worldview, but yet it really doesn't belong here?"

Autumn Cornwell:

Oh, yes. syncretization? That's how you say that? That's really good. Can you define that because that's a great concept.

Danica Childs:

Syncretism is when you become a Christian, but you bring in other elements that are not Christian, they're not biblical, they're not of the Lord, but you sort of marry them into your current beliefs, and it becomes kind of like something new. It's neither Christian nor whatever your old beliefs are. So this new syncretic religion can often have a patina of Christianity. So we don't think too much about it. And so this is where God wants to sit with you and sift your ideas, your beliefs and your behaviors. Say, "Is this really of you Lord? Or is this something I brought in from the world that I really should let go of?"

Autumn Cornwell:

Yes, and I would say, also, this is an area that we people pleasers can have a little bit of issue with, because we don't want to hurt people's feelings. We don't want people to feel out of the group, or we don't want to put up barriers or whatever. We can hesitate to speak full truth all the time. And of course, we want to speak truth in love.

Danica Childs:

And I think the thing that can be difficult with this one. And the reason why we all struggle with this -- I guarantee we ALL struggle with this -- is that it can be isolating to stand in the truth of what we know to be true from the scriptures and of who God is, and what he has asked of us when it goes against the world. And that can be isolating, and therefore that can be lonely. And so we don't want to feel that way. So we mitigate it by throwing overboard some of the things that God has for us.

Autumn Cornwell:

Yeah, this is a complicated issue. And I think as we go forward in this series, Danica will be touching on knowing yourself in some aspects regarding discernment, like if you understand your own motivations that helps in this area, so we will definitely be covering that.

Danica Childs:

But I would say one last thing on this one is, this is one of the tough questions that we have to ask ourselves regarding the world and the Christian life because they are in opposition is, WHO do you want to please more? And this is huge for discernment because discerning God's will requires a desire to please God more than yourself, more than others, more than the world. And so this should be a question we're asking ourselves all the time, "Am I motivated to please others or am I motivated to please God in this?"

Autumn Cornwell:

Yes. And a role model is definitely Jesus in the New Testament. He was always doing things that were rocking the boat.

Danica Childs:

I mean, it's why they wanted to kill them.

Autumn Cornwell:

Yes, yes, exactly. His disciples weren't washing their hands in the ceremonial cleansing --oh, no! Then they were picking the corn from the fields on the Sabbath and doing all these things that were... (Autumn /Danica roleplay here as Jesus versus the Pharisees)

Danica Childs:

"You whitewashed tombs! How dare you!"

Autumn Cornwell:

"I'm shocked! Get my whips we're going to the temple!"

Danica Childs:

All right, so now we're on NUMBER FOUR. The fourth reason for Christian discernment is that we need to discern the wolves that appear in sheep's clothing.

So the verse for this is Matthew 7:

15. "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."

Autumn Cornwell:

And this is the big warning to us not to let someone's amazing charisma or credentials influence our discernment of them. Very tempting, very tempting at times.

Danica Childs:

This is huge for when you're trying to discern leadership issues, if you're in the church trying to discern who should be elders, who should be pastors, who should be leaders, and directors of programs --

Autumn Cornwell:

Who should be in charge of youth people, as we heard about the aforementioned leaders.

Danica Childs:

But then this is broader than even just what goes on in the church. It's also when you are sending your kids to school, or you're sending them into after school programs or wherever your kids are involved in something, you still have to be discerning of who is in authority over them.

Autumn Cornwell:

It's discernment as protection.

Danica Childs:

Yes. So this is a really big one -- Christians can sometimes abdicate their responsibility here. And often it's because they don't want to seem mean.

Autumn Cornwell:

Yes, again, the people pleasing can come up. The "I just want everybody to like us Christians."

Danica Childs:

Or you can't really put your finger on the why there's no hard evidence. But yet you are getting serious red flags, internal red flags. That's a discernment issue. And, you know, sometimes it's not going to make sense to the world, the decision you're making, and it may never be understood for a long time.

Autumn Cornwell:

And you just have to trust if you have a red flag, really heed the Holy Spirit on that.

And then, again, with the appearances you know, "Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart," from 1 Samuel 16:

7, I think it is. Where the comparison between David and Saul -- no, David and his other brothers. When they were going to anoint him, when Samuel was going to anoint him and it was like, "Oh, look at all these impressive, big, tall men."

Danica Childs:

And David was not impressive. He had no charisma and no credentials.

Autumn Cornwell:

Apparently, although later he appeared and was dancing in his loin cloth.

Danica Childs:

He really stepped into that position.

Autumn Cornwell:

He became a steak Christian? Just kidding. Mature.

Danica Childs:

Beefy? No.

Autumn Cornwell:

That's not theologically sound. So anyway, Oh! Beefy, ha! I get it, steak, beefy. Anyway. As you were, Danica.

Danica Childs:

So NUMBER FIVE. Our final reason -- there's so much more that could be said, but we're going to stop at five -- is that we need to understand what God's will is so we don't become foolish.

And the verse for this is from Ephesians, 5:

15-17. "Be very careful then how you live, not as unwise, but as wise, making the most of every opportunity because the days are evil. Therefore, do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is."

Autumn Cornwell:

So good. I know. And today, especially with all the media, whether it's social media, whether it's the news, whether it's like emails or whatever, there's so much advice and direction and opinions out there from all spheres. And so we need to be able to wade through the muck and the mire, to actually get to the crystal clear truth, the crystal clear waters of truth in the swamp we call life. I mean, it really is trying to find the clarity and the truth, right?

Danica Childs:

And we need discernment to do that. We need to be walking with the Holy Spirit to discern how God wants us to behave in this crazy world. And so I also think of this in terms of social media. Social media is such a great way to practice foolishness. So, you know, it's like, this is the place where we can do that instant post or that instant comment and we could do it anonymously, even. And yet it is very foolish. You know, we're not thinking, we're not dsicerning with the Holy Spirit, "Is this really what I'm supposed to be doing? Should I really be saying this? Should I really be in agreement with X, Y, and Z? Should I really be talking about another person this way?" You know, this is where Christians can really start looking foolish -- and not necessarily foolish to the world, but foolish in the eyes of God.

Autumn Cornwell:

Yeah, and we're God's ambassadors, 24/7. And we really are his representation, and we want to be the light of the world, and the joy and the hope and the love and I know we have to speak truth, but we have to do that lovingly, and all that. So this is a whole area where we don't want to be foolish, we want to be wise. We are role models. People are always watching Christians, to see how they will react. How are you going to respond? It may be true, but you have to say it in a kind way.

Danica Childs:

So there you have it! FIVE REASONS WHY Christian discernment is so important. I'm just going to reiterate them. The FIRST one was a mature Christian is able to discern good from evil and false spirits from true spirits. Number TWO, it's because we're in spiritual warfare all the time. And then number THREE, the world and the Christian life are in opposition.

Number FOUR:

wolves appear in sheep's clothing. So we have to be on alert. And then NUMBER FIVE, we need to understand what God's will is, so we don't become foolish.

Autumn Cornwell:

Amen!

Danica Childs:

And I would just say on this last one again, we can make foolish decisions because we never invite God into the conversation, we don't ask God for his perspective. And so we end up doing things that could have been avoided if we had been better discerners of a situation. So it's not even just being out in the world. It could just be discerning for your own life, not making foolish decisions that can have long term consequences for you.

Autumn Cornwell:

Yeah. And we really delve into the idea of decision making versus discernment, and how to do that with the Holy Spirit, which is very helpful, and that's coming up, too in our next episode. So thank you for joining us! And that's a wrap!